Stephanie Gutierrez: Welcome this episode of Missionaries Today with Shonnaa Ingram nobody used it starting to is re Before when missionaries came back from the field, the most part, They just kind of had it’s a There were It’s majority I would say, since there’s been a things that have we’re talking about it. So. Maybe that’s your You have as missionaries for to you serve episode And Ingram, who is helps been, in the missionary care wish of of a before they leave. as they’re making their lives afterwards. make this process so many ways of doing this. with He plan sending And episode going give you, I’m hoping is need you navigate this yourself navigate So that, myth as to with Shauna Ingram.

to of the the Modern Day podcast. we’re talking it feels like no now feels like everyone’s talk about, and it’s a good And it’s a topic for Why do I say good a good thing because it happens. The at some point, whether it’s old ageor whether it is finishing and or a crisis, experience just as much when we send them out and for you kind of know what that’s going to So we talked today with the founder director of Re Entry which is an organization that she’s this oh gosh, we talked today about. the things that we we would have known when we reentered a lot of the kind under behind the scenes things what happens when missionary To the transition to rebuilding We want to as practical because God’s not done you yet. has a for you he is to that the as or help a missionary Some behind with busters what that process really looks like and how you can do it well and let God transition you into what’s next for you in life.

So with that, let’s jump into today’s episode with Shonna Ingram.

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Stephanie Gutierrez: Hey Shauna, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today.

Shonna Ingram: It’s great to be here. Thanks.

Stephanie Gutierrez: It is great to have you. And Shauna, we’re talking about re entry today. We know it’s something that’s hard, but I think for a lot of missionaries, it can feel way more than just hard. It can feel like an identity crisis, like the ground beneath them has shifted and it kind of has. They’ve moved to a new place.

I’d love to just start off by asking you what’s one of the most unexpected or even shocking moments that you experienced when you. returned home. Something that made you think, nobody prepared me for this.

Shonna Ingram: Well, I don’t know if there was one particular thing. I think it was a lots of different things on top of each other, but we were talking about this the other night. we have a group that gets together once a month and it was like, well, what was it? And I thought, you know, we went over a little bit older.

We weren’t right out of college. moved. We had had a house. We had the kids already. Andso I thought, Hey, we’re just gonna move back. And we were only gone five years. So I was like, Hey, we’re just gonna, know, move back in and things were gonna be, you know, but it’s like, oh, well, you don’t have any credit history for five years. It’s like, oh, okay. you know, oh, you have to reenroll your kids. Well, you don’t have the paperwork. And so we had to go find paperwork. And it was just like, all of this. Plus on top of that, it’s like, we live in Texas. So I was like. There’s like five different energy companies and it was just like, I think it was all that.

They were all on top of each other all at one time. Like, oh, no, what’s going on here? For sure.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. The compound nature of it. You’re absolutely right. It just, and I think your exposure to visiting back, you know, home to, to your passport country in the past has been for different purposes. You’ve been going to have a furlough or to raise funds or to maybe take a break. And so you didn’t have to deal with any of those realities of life.

And. It’s funny. I love that you brought up only five years because it does. It feels like it’s maybe not that long. I’ve even talked to people who’ve been gone for two years or a year and they’re jarred when they get back. And I think too, when it’s a shorter period of time, you think, There’s no way things can have changed that much that not realizing how much you have changed not to mention The place you lived in before if you’re going back even to the same place You might be in a new state or a new city There is so much to learn and I like that You’re pointing out some of those less obvious things because there’s some obvious things that I think we think of like Oh, I need to prepare for I don’t know getting a house and furnishing stuff or renting a place There’s you know getting a car there’s stuff like Oh my gosh, I don’t have a credit history.

I’ve talked to several people and they could not believe how much that they caught that caught them off guard or, you know, I mean, even simple things, I remember I haven’t had some friends who moved back and they went. We’re in our forties and we’re having to buy silverware all over again. Like, I don’t want to do this again to, I remember for us health insurance, we have a child with special needs and I forgot the first time I got her that special health insurance, it took over a year to obtain it.

And it took almost a year again to reobtain it when we got back. I mean, it is. Wild. Can you think of any other ones that just catch people off guard, maybe caught you or you see them catching other people off guard that you don’t think to prepare for?

Shonna Ingram: I think another area is relationships. Like, everybody’s had life while you’ve been gone, and like, and you don’t like, know how to fit in. I think that’s been a really hard one that I’ve walked people through. It’s like, oh, or they’re coming back, like, you know, it’s special needs children or their parents are aging and it’s not, so it’s just like, okay, it’s just not re entry. There’s just lots of different levels of grief and processing and like, Oh, I didn’t know. I didn’t know that it was going to be this hard. I guess

Stephanie Gutierrez: You just can’t even conceptualize that it could possibly be that difficult. Also, if you are listening and you’re getting ready to move back, we are not here to scare you today. Shauna and I love you. We’re here to encourage you. And maybe bring up a couple of things that you haven’t thought of not to overwhelm you just so thatthey don’t take the wind out of your sails.

And Sean, I love that you brought up things that are beyondtask lists or to do lists, because we started talking about a few of the things that you have to do, but you don’t put relationships on a to do list. Like that’s not. Something that you think, this is what I have to do when I get back, find out how to fit in, that’s on no one’s list.

And yet,

Shonna Ingram: Yeah.

Stephanie Gutierrez: you go. And you, you write up grief too. that’s when you can sort of put on a to do list, like find a counselor or do a debrief. So there’s things you can do about it, but notnot a whole lot you can do to prepare for what that will feel like. I’d loved it. ask youwhat are some of the biggest myths that you think missionaries have about re entry or maybe even their supporters supporting churches?

Shonna Ingram: You’re just moving back home. think is, Oh, we’re just moving back home. People assume reentry is just like any other move. We’re just relocating physically. we’re, just the emotionalspace. identity of shifts a little bit. you’re just going to pick up where you left off, might be another myth. both you and your home culture have changed. I know America has changed and is keep changing.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Mm hmm.

Shonna Ingram: know, like how do we, how do I have a conversation? And I know that over at Global Trellis. They did some research on the, on this,

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah.

Shonna Ingram: and they actually put it in, I think, Christianity Today.

And it was like, you know, coming back of understanding like social norms. So when am I supposed to say, or what am I not supposed to say? And if I say, what do I believe? What do I believe anymore? And what if my family doesn’t believe the same way? Because I’ve

Stephanie Gutierrez: Mm hmm.

Shonna Ingram: have been really hard. I think that’s been one of our areas, and maybe another myth would be everything is fine because you’re just surrounded by familiar things and familiar people, but in my space where I work, I have a lot of missionaries cultural workers that say that they feel unseen and misunderstood,

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah.

Shonna Ingram: so,

Stephanie Gutierrez: is hard to understand. I mean, I can put myself in, in the shoes of people who are in relationship with missionaries, but I haven’t walked through it. It is hard to understand. We can barely understand our own experiences sometimes. Like what the heck did I just go through? What, what was that?

So they don’t have the tools, always the equipping to know how to do it. And some people just aren’t very good listeners, if we can be honest, and they don’t know how to ask questions and they get overwhelmed by our big feelings. Andit’s tough. I love too, that you brought upGlobal Trellis and Amy Young in that survey.

We actually did an episode with Amy Young last year where we dug into the results of that and what missionaries are really feeling and experiencing and how shocking it can be for them and for their supporters. So for people who want to learn more about that, they can go back and revisit that episode and here’s some of the stuff Amy had to share, but yeah, there’s, there’s so much that’s unknown.

And what I appreciate what, what, what you’re doing, Shonna, is you’re bringing a lot of that to light. You’re demystifying this experience and you actually broke down the reentry process into three phases. Could you explain what those are and how they work?

Shonna Ingram: yeah. It was hard. I, we do have timelines for them. However, we know that everybody’s experience is different.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah.

Shonna Ingram: So I always preface with that, that just because you’ve been back a certain amount of time that you are in this space. So the first one, I think there actually is quite a bit of literature on it. We call it a return. So it would be great if we talk about returning in prefield. It’s like, you know what, you might come back and that’s okay. Like, so if we can start there, that would be a great place to start.

Stephanie Gutierrez: So talk about returning before they even leave for the first time. For

Shonna Ingram: So that would be a definitely good recommendation, or at least knowing going into your last term that you’re going to be returning again in a perfect world. That would be great. We know that doesn’t always happen.

Stephanie Gutierrez: COVID and we were like, what?

Shonna Ingram: Exactly. There is that space. So if we could sort of think of nine months before we head back there are some things we need to do. We can do a lot of things like, how do we end our term? Well, how do we, you know, you know, the. What comes up the raft, right, is one of the big things. It’s like, how do we, you know, how do we say goodbye to people?

How do we emotionally prepare? So we actually have a checklist for 90 days out, 60 days out, 30 days out, even a week out you can, you know, You know, check off. It’s like, okay, I did this and I did that. So, you know, it’s sort of that practical space, but also the emotional, emotional space to it. And you’re, know, and you make sure you have your housing and you make sure you have transportation and you make sure you have Internet and health insurance and all of those, practical. And on average, that probably takes three to six months if you know you’re coming back. don’t know, you might be living with a parent for a year, or,

Stephanie Gutierrez: That. Oh yeah.

Shonna Ingram: or, you know, a church might have a place for you. For you to live. So again, not putting certain timelines on there, but to getting to like, okay, you know, Maslow’s hierarchy of need. We’ve got everything, taken, you know we can, function.

However, if you’re also in a place of uncertainty there might be some legal things that you need to deal with if you’re in the middle of a divorce or medical things that you need to actually put on your plate. So that return is going to take a little bit longer. And then we get to enter into the next phase that we call restore, which again, six months to two, two years. post return. we like to call this the space in between two worlds. and sometimes that can be really messy because, you know, the adrenaline is wearing off and now you’re sort of dealing with sort of identity or relationships and you’re

Stephanie Gutierrez: And everyone’s asking you so many questions. What are you going to do next? What now? What now?

Shonna Ingram: yeah. And you’re like, wait, hold on, you know, like two weeks in and everybody kept telling my husband’s like, okay, well, you’re going to go get a real job. Now. It’s like, no, I’m planning on staying with the and we lost, you know, part of our story is we lost our biggest supporting church and our biggest supporting single supporter, like three months back, even though we had told them, you know, we’re, You know, we’re staying with the mission and so like, oh, I don’t even know what to do or, you know, it was, it was like the hardest time in our marriage. It was like, he was looking at how to get the phone bill down lower and I’m like, we just need to get a job. And I was like, wow, we are looking at this really differently and,

Stephanie Gutierrez: The enemy just uses that type of stuff too, to beat you down. Like, look at you, you don’t have a purpose anymore. You don’t have a calling. What are you doing? I mean, it really, you, you think you as, as ground as you think you are in your faith, the enemy will use those low emotional times to just really go after you. So thanks for being vulnerable and even just talking about some of what you guys experienced. It’s tough. Tough’s a nice word.

Shonna Ingram: I mean, there is a process through it

Stephanie Gutierrez: There is.

Shonna Ingram: We do give spaces to grieve, I think it is a big place, big place of forgiveness, of, you know, I think one of the biggest things we have to do is forgiving ourselves of looking at lies or expectations. That either we put on ourselves or churches or families or yeah, and so we sort of dive deep in that season of looking at that space and that again, but we can get stuck in that we can get stuck in that and I know people that have been dealing with that. I’m not an overseas missionary anymore. So I’m done. God’s done with me. I can’t, you know, there’s nothing. There’s nothing for me left. That’s like, no, there’s, there’s much more.

Stephanie Gutierrez: There is, and Shonna and I are talking to you from the other side of the Restore phase. You got this. There is hope on the other side. And we’re also, I know we have a lot of listenerswho are, well, everyone, I believe who listens has faith and believes that God is good and has good things for them. And yet it, let’s say if you’re going to run a marathon, if you run a marathon, we are not being negative people.

If we say like, you will probably hurt after the marathon, your muscles will be sore. You will probably be dehydrated. There will be some things that will happen to your body after you run a marathon. That is not being negative. That is not expecting the worst. That is just being straight up logical. Like, Hey, when you do hard things, it’s hard.

It’s stuff on you physically, emotionally, spiritually, like we’re just being really practical here today, but there is hope on the other side. And so I think that it’s really important to acknowledge the difficulty, not from a place of being negative, but from a place of preparing. I mean, the Bible talks about count the cost.

We count the cost when we go on the field, but part of counting the cost, as you mentioned, Shonna, even in that. before we leave is saying, I, Lord, help me to count the cost, knowing this is going to be hard going. And this is going to be hard coming back. And I think, and you know, talking to you and many others, that re entry culture shock can oftentimes be way more difficult than initially moving, because you don’t have all the rah rah of everyone behind you.

Everyone’s just like, Oh, you’re back now. Oh, we don’t need to support you anymore. I don’t want to say everyone, but. with many people it can be. So the restore phase is hard. Yes, that’s what we’re saying. And you will make it through and God has good stuff for you on the other side. And that leads us right to phase three, which is,

Shonna Ingram: Rebuild.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Hey,

Shonna Ingram: We get to rebuild. part of my training is a career development specialiston top of my trauma training. Sothis is where it’s like, Oh, we get to maybe integrate that part of usthat happened overseas. And how do we integrate that into our next season? So I think. Integration is a great word for that, butthrough that we get to look at, well, what values do I have that might be different we had before? Whatmotivations, what’s motivating us now? What is it that we can bring to the world now that’s

Stephanie Gutierrez: yeah.

Shonna Ingram: And that God still loves us. though we’re not a cross cultural worker. And I don’t know how many times that just sits with people that our identity has been in that we’re over, we’ve done, you know, this thing overseas, but it’s like, no, he can use us more. And we’re great examples of that.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yes.

Shonna Ingram: Taking, taking that space. So I mean, I have people that are like, you know, I’m going to go work with refugees because I still need that cross cultural. You know, place, or they will go on trips, you know, maybe short term trips. also, some people are like, I’m just done like, that wasn’t for me. Andyou know, I’ve got my husband teaches in a school that’s, you know. It’s diverseethnically andyou know, so that, you know, there’s still, there’s still places, especially in, if you live in the U S now, there is a very much big culture I was talking to a friend, I live in the Dallas area. So she’s Fourni, Fourni, which. I don’t know how many people it is. It’s like we have 136 different languages

Stephanie Gutierrez: Wow.

Shonna Ingram: in, you know, a town of, you know, 500, 000 people, you know, it’s just, I mean, the world again is changing and it’s almost coming hereto the states. you can always have a big cross cultural, if that’s something that you still feel like God is calling you to.

Stephanie Gutierrez: It’s true. And I love that you mentioned earlier about what are the ways that we’re different? What are the ways we’ve changed? Because if you think about us coming back, there are things that we will have gained. We’ll have become much richer people because of the experience we’ve lived through. We might come back with new language, with new cross cultural, you know, experiences and lenses and worldviews and understanding.

I mean, there’s so much that you can learn even in a short period of time overseas. And on the other side too, we might come back with some trauma and withhaving lived through some pretty brutal things, whether they’re physical things we lived, lived through or emotional experiences or spiritual things.

I mean, there’s, it’s a lot. So we come back with. A lot. And so with Rebuild and what you’re talking about, we’re leaning into what are some of the beautiful ways in which I’ve grown and changed. How can I kind of let that get synthesized and integrated into a new way of being, whether it’s with my current ministry or whether it’s something totally new.

My husband actuallywe still have a nonprofit where we work with Spanish speaking pastors and missionaries. So that’s a huge part of what we do. And he really felt called to go back to school to become a marriage and family therapist. So he’s now working in the school systemas a marriage and family therapist, working with families and children in a Spanish immersion school.

How amazing is that? Like, would have never thought. He’d go that way. And it’s so right. So we’re getting to do kind of this blend of things a little bit like what you talked about. So there’s new paths and new doors that God wants to open on one side. And then let’s talk for a second about that other side, about maybe some of the tough things that we bring back.

You’ve mentioned that your approach is very trauma informed and trauma is a word that we are using more now. It wasn’t comfortable for Christians for a long time, but we’re being honest about what we experienced. So what does that look like for missionaries entering back in and looking at that concept of trauma and maybe how that impacted them during their time there?

Debrief.

Shonna Ingram: I think every situation is so different. And if you look at the definition of trauma, it’s, it’s just goes beyond your ability to. Andwe come from, like, I call a post traumatic growth where, like, we, we, It’s okay that something hard has happened to us, and that we can grow from it. And so I think that’s, but again, like I said, there is a process of learning and seeing what losses. We had overseas and again, depending how we come into reentry, definitely affects how we’re going to, like, what happened to us on the field. So we need to look at, oh, yeah, indefinitely worked with possible, you know, a therapist or, you know, a trauma informed coach or somebody we brief that’ssays, Yeah, that was really hard and that really sucked. Andand we, you know, but we’re here with youin it and so that’s what one of the things that we’re trying to do is create safety, a safe space, because there isn’t a safe space, necessarily around this area. so we do, we do that in community. through our. Through our program, butyeah, trauma is just, I didn’t know that I had trauma because I was thinking that trauma was one big bad thing that happened to us. And now we have lots of words of, you knowneuroplasticity and so we can change. We can

Stephanie Gutierrez: we can.

Shonna Ingram: We

Stephanie Gutierrez: We can.

Shonna Ingram: yes. Yeah.

Stephanie Gutierrez: about the importance of processing loss during reentry, which I think is so good because I think too, with, with Christians, sometimes we can fall in one of two camps. And one is the camp ofand I shouldn’t say Christians. I would just say people in general, we, we can fall in the camp of a victim mentality.

Like, The second I identify that I’ve had trauma or I’ve had difficulty in my past, I can go into trauma mode and go on one ditch and say, well, it’s this person’s fault. And this is what happened to me. And, and that doesn’t have a growth mindset. I mean, referencing Carol Dweck, as you brought up mindsetvictim mentality is there’s a post traumatic growth.

It’s like, Oh, poor me. This is awful. Look at what happened to me. And let’s be real. There are times we have been victimized. There are. Actually, we could actually have been victims. So we’re not saying to say that you are a victim and have experienced something is bad. You might be a victim, but there’s difference between being a victim and victim mentality.

So we’re talking about the extreme of being in and staying in a victim mentality. Then on the other side, this would be more the Christian when you see a lot, especially with tough missionaries. There’s the extreme of like, I’m fine. There’s other people who’ve been through tougher things. It’s no worries.

God’s got me. I’ve got the victory. And there is almost a non acknowledgement of it. Like, yeah, that happened, but whatever. I’m totally fine. Because we lean into this hyper positivity where we ignore or we push down because we think that if we don’t say it, it disappears. Instead, it’s just a shoving and a packing down.

And at some point, if you pack something too full, it’s like that jack in the box. It’s going to come flying out. And yet there is this space in between, in between victim mentality and nothing happened to me. I am great. Hallelujah. And that’s that space in between of naming. We’re not blaming, we’re naming like, okay, so yeah, I was a victim of something that happened to me.

This happened. this was wrong. This was actually terrible. And you know what? I even need to cry about it and grieve and go through all of this, but it’s not going to send me over here to this extreme place. And it’s not going to send me here to this extreme place. I’m going to sit here. I’m going to process it through and I’m going to let God bring healing to me.

But yeah, I remember when I went through trauma therapy, when we came back, long story to that one, but I remember them saying, you cannot heal what you cannot feel.

Shonna Ingram: Yes,

Stephanie Gutierrez: And I didn’t want to feel that. I remember saying out loud to, to my husband, like, why do, Why do people have to feel so many feelings? It’s so much easier to not feel as if I had somehow.

escaped that or my personality had permitted me to, to not go there. You gotta go there. So Hey, all you positive people. It’s okay. You can go there. You can name your stuff and don’t feel scared of going to victim mentality place. If you’re hyper positive, you’re not going to go there anyways. Nothing’s going to get you there.

Let God do the work in you and get you to the place where you can process through that healing. Be sad. And Sean, I want to invite you to speak into that. talk a little bit about. the importance of processing grief and what are healthy ways to do that.

Shonna Ingram: Yeah, there are different ways to process grief in, you know, there, there’s lots of resources out there. well, I think the first thing we need to notice is that grief has been so, I think it’s coming to light now that people realize that grief isn’t just about a death a person. So, first we need to realize, oh, I am grieving that. That I’m not just grieving a death of a person, but I’m grieving a dream. I’m grieving relationships. I’m grieving security. Yeah, I’m grieving possessions, you know. For our TCK kids, you know, the pets that we had to leave behind.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah.

Shonna Ingram: You know, I think for, again, like you said, naming it of like, oh, I Okaywe,

Stephanie Gutierrez: Friends.

Shonna Ingram: friends, yeah, we have a place thatthat, you know, we sort of sit with it and what does it look like?

And then there’s just things that we can control. In that, and sometimes there’s things that we can’t control, and then sometimes we just need to put it on a shelf, and it’s like, you know what, I can’t deal with this right now. And we’re going to put it on the shelf, but we’re going to bring it back out at another time. and then one of my favoritesChristian practices is laments.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah.

Shonna Ingram: Andsitting with the Lord and him, I’m very angry about this and I’m angry with you. we call it the wrestling tent, with

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yes.

Shonna Ingram: of being okay. I also, how do we hold this grief and this gratitude at the same time? And what does that look like? each day that might look different. And soI think like in, like what you were saying, you know, that the mentality of a victim or positivity, but it’s like, it’s somewhere in the middle and it’s somewhere in this present, in this present. And that’s where the Lord heals us as well.

It’s like, He heals us in the present. And so if we can sit there with the Lord, Andokay that it, it’s a little uncomfortable right now, but he, But he wants us and he walks with us. We use Psalm 23, you knowin this restore space is that restoring is a continuous restoring from Psalm 23, 4, you know, he restores our soul and he’s continuously restoring us.

And so if we can come from the mindset of that, or at least have people around you, what’s

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah,

Shonna Ingram: You know, okay, we got this. And again, that’s a little bit partly why we do this in, in, in groups is like, Oh, I’m dealing with that too. I was the only one.

Stephanie Gutierrez: it’s true. And we see others grieve. I think it can give us permission to feel like we can as well. You know, it’s Jesus grieved. I mean, we, we always say we want to be more like Jesus, but nobody ever says like, I want to be more like Jesus. So I cried. Jesus grieved. He wept. Yeah. Wept is not crying. Wept like that’s weeping.

Jesus wept. And yet that’s not a way in which we ever talk about. We want to be more like him, but it’s, it’s throughout scripture. Like you said, I mean, my, my favorite lament psalm is Psalm 42. If somebody’s like, I just. Need to invite a little bit of that sad space in so I can feel my feelings man Go to Psalm 42 and you you will feel all the feels shot I don’t know if you have a favorite you have a resource actually that you created around this using the Psalms, correct?

Shonna Ingram: Yeah, we use Psalm 22. andPsalm 13 is a big one. I think 77. Is it Psalm 88 where it’s like, it’s like, there’s no end to it. It’s just like, because usually in, in, in laments, it’s like at the end, they’re like, Oh, well, got to tell him how good he is. It’s like, well, not every Psalm does it. You have

Stephanie Gutierrez: You’re right. I think there is that one and it might be 88 I think you’re right

Shonna Ingram: is.

Stephanie Gutierrez: that don’t be a Berean Look it up, but there is one song that just ends in a little bit of despair and you’re like, oh Did someone slip and allow this in the Bible? Is this okay? Hey, it’s one Psalm out of 150 Psalms.

It’s okay.

Shonna Ingram: But you know, it’s not forever.

Stephanie Gutierrez: It’s not forever.

Shonna Ingram: And

Stephanie Gutierrez: It’s not forever.

Shonna Ingram: yeah.

Stephanie Gutierrez: But I think fear keeps people from going there. Like we talked about earlier, just a fear that if I go there, I’ll never come back out. If you do it alone, you might, but you just brought up do it in community. Don’t do it alone. Do it with somebody. And if you think I don’t have somebody, that’s what a debrief is for.

If you’ve never heard of a debrief, I had never, I was like, what the heck is a debrief? I had never heard of a debrief the whole time I was living abroad, found out afterwards, like a while afterwards, but it’s a place where you go specifically to, to do this with people and with counselors who get it. And there are places all over the United States, if you’re from the U S and if you’re not from the U Sthere are places that do this around the world.

So I will post some links to this as well, where you can find out places to do these, but find a group. There’s a place in Michigan called Alongside, where you can go for like three weeks and process through all this stuff. So get what you need. AndIf there’s a financial cost to it, let your supporters know, like, this is something our family needs.

And I really believe if you’re supposed to be there, God will provide a way to get that. I don’t say that in like a fake faithy way. Like God will provide. Hey, you’re missionaries. You know, that God provides, you know what that faith journey looks like. SoAsk, and if you don’t know how to communicate to your supporters, ask the debriefers, you know, or ask Chad GPT, man.

No, don’t ask Chad. They might know. They seem to know everything nowadays, but ask a debriefer. How can I communicate to my supportersthat this is something I need to raise funds for? And of course, we’ll be able to give you words. They believe in what they’re doing. Soyes, do that alone. And so speaking of, so we, they’ve gone through some of that grieving processLet’s talk againjust for a minute, Sean, and we talked about that feeling of losing purpose when you come home.

So for missionaries who are feeling that they’re grieving, they don’t know what on earth they’re supposed to do next. how could it possibly be as meaningful as it was before? What’s one thing they can do to just start moving forward in that direction? We’re not giving you a solution to all of life right now, but what is one thing they can do to start moving in a good direction?

Shonna Ingram: Well, once after the grievingis like, where is God working? See where he’s workingaround you. and that could be, you know, in a, you know, in a public school that could be inin your church. It could be, I’m going to go sit at Panera and, and pray for people. You know, there’s. Again, there’s so many different ways and I’m just so surprised of how, you know, we have all these people that come together and it’s like everybody’s got something different the Lord is asking them. so, so I would just say, like, just ask the Lord, just like, is there, is there a group of people that, that you might have a heart for like, my heart is for people in re entry. I didn’t know that. So I went to re entry.

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yes.

Shonna Ingram: no big thing. So, soI was. I that would be just a great start journalingspeaking. you know, we, we have of, you know, what’s our personality. I think looking at our seasonlike, maybe you went overseas and you were single and now you’re married with 4 kids, you know, things are going to look differently and you might need to do things differently now. Than what you

Stephanie Gutierrez: Yeah. But what good advice to just start with observation, like notice, like you said, what’s God doing in you and what is God doing around you? And that’s something I think anyone can do. And just to share a piece of our own story, cause that, that’s exactly how the Lord did it with us. We started noticing, and I know for us, the Spanish speaking pastors that we’d worked with before whoMy husband had always been meeting with them to do, you know, consulting through, through our church.

We were part of in, in Peru to help them think through small groups or, or systems or ways to strengthen the church or grow the church. I mean, all these strategic type things. Well, he’d built really great relationships with them while that was all going on and just naturally become friends. Cause he’s just super, he’s just like that.

He’s an amazing friend. And so when they were calling during COVID, well, we moved back, I think at the end of 2020. Yeah. Absolutely. In 2021, he got calls and he just figured we were still working for the church back in Peru from here. And in all the calls, he wasthey would say, we want to talk about small groups.

We want to talk about this. We want to talk about that. And as he was talking to them within the first, you know, 2 minutes. He realized it wasn’t about small groups. It was about life and their relationships and their church. And I mean, grown men just weeping. And then all of a sudden we started in that first year having pastors, Latin American pastors say, Hey, can we come up and stay with you for a couple of years or a couple of years?

I’m sorry. A couple, a couple of days or a week. And we’re like, it’s Minnesota. You want to, it’s winter. Like, and they started one by one. And in Less than a year, we had seven pastors call, ask, fly themselves up to come and stay with us and just process life. And so speaking to observation, we started to go, okay, what’s happening here?

This is a lot of times. This is highly specific. Lord, what are you doing? And that was what led us to formalize our nonprofit so we could raise funds to start doing these retreats for Spanish speaking pastors. And then on the flip side, when we went through trauma therapy, I remember my husband went through it first.

He’s so good that he lets me share this stuff on, on the podcast. I love you, Danny, if you’re listening. and I remember when I went through it a couple of months later, I remember being in that week long therapy and I looked at the therapist and went, This is totally something my husband could do and not even could do.

Like I’ve watched him doing a untrained person, you know, version of this with all these pastors on our couches and kind of came back and was like, I don’t know. But again, observing. And so I give these examples and I love that you Shanna, because. For each of you missionaries, if you are coming back, just start noticing what is your heart being drawn to, what opportunities might be opening up, and we want to be realistic, it could take you a long time for some of you, God might open a door immediately for some of you, this could be years down the road.

So, Shonna, let me ask you, what would you say to the missionaries where this seems to take just a really, really long time and, and as they’re observing, they are feeling more confusion than they are. clarity.

Shonna Ingram: Yeah. Then there’s yeah, I think getting a career coach or bringing the right people alongside that, or, you know, the rebuild workbook I don’t know. I don’t even know what I can bring. I think that’s a lot of it. It’s like, I don’t even know. Just giving structure to that of like, what is, like, what, what has changed, you know, what’s the same? Like I get that one a lot. It’s like, well, I still feel like I want to help people. Well, you can help people in lots of ways, you know, you can go in and you can get paid for that, too. So there’s like a lot of people actually go into counseling, or the medical field. So it depends on, you know, finances of how that works. It’s like, you know, I still, like, God has in my heart that I’m supposed to serve people. And I think you can do that anywhere in anything. And soor maybe not. Or maybe it’s just like, you know, I think I’m done with that and I’m going to go work on computers and I don’t think there’s a right or wrong. Like, well, let’s just notice and be curious and let’s try a few things and sometimes well, let’s just try it. I think. you know, this whole re entry experts and how it came. It’s like, well, we’re just going to try it and I’m just going to talk to people about it. So I went to PTM and said, hey I’m noticing this with people.

Are you noticing this? When people come back and they’re like, Oh yeah, I noticed that. And it’s like, well, it’s like this three, three seasons. And then, then you get, and then a book publisher comes and says, Hey, well, I don’t, I don’t, You write a book about it and we’ll publish it, you know, and then it’s just, and then like I said, what, 40 organizations came to a webinar last two weeks ago on how to serve, how do we serve missionaries in this season? And I’m like, God is like, like, I’m just trying to keep up with him.

Stephanie Gutierrez: PTM is a member care conference for people who work to serve missionaries. And Shauna’s going to be speaking at that this fall and I’m going to be there. So I’m excited. I’m going to get to hear you while you’re there, but I’m glad you brought up Try Shauna because you got to try stuff out because you and I right now are talking from a place where God has placed us in a space where we’re thriving.

I mean, this, this, we are doing what I think he’s equipped us and called us to do in this season, but Hey, we both went through seasons where we were trying other things, throwing other spaghetti noodles up at walls and things were not sticking. And, and there are times too, you just need to just get a job, any job.

And if you still have that heart to serve, God Go volunteer on the weekends or in the evenings. And so it’s not sitting around waiting for this perfect job. Neither of us fell into these, you know, ideal, perfect things. So I want to be careful. As we say, we are in a good space now, and this is to give you hope and to inspire you like they’re exciting things ahead.

But don’t sit around waiting for those as you’re observing, because sometimes the doors open as you are walking through whatever door you see in front of you. Trying is what leads to those places. And, trying doesn’t always work. Sometimes you might do something and you do it for a couple of months and it’s like, Whoa, that was not it.

Well, guess what? You just got some great information that that was not it. Cross that off the list. That’s still forward movement. Good job.

Shonna Ingram: right. And that’s what, and I think that’s so hard for missionaries. and that’s like, cause it’s like, it was so clear that we were supposed to go over and now it’s not. And it’s like, I almost feel like maybe he trusts us with, like, it doesn’t necessarily, you know, you could be or you could, you know, work at Like, I mean, I don’t know how many days I was like, I’m just going to go work at Target. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: Sometimes you need that though. Sometimes you need a space of a job where you don’t have to think for a little while and you can just. Kind of work through that grieving process and unplug mentally. And that’s okay. Like, not only is it okay, that might be what God has for you in the season. I think so much of this, Shauna, has to do too with not feeling shame over it.

That shame where you’re just like, I’ve done something wrong and this is God’s punishment. And just the humiliation sometimes of trying to answer people’s questions. Quit trying to answer them. Or if you’re going to answer them, like, just own it, like own what you’re doing. I am stocking shelves at Target right now.

And you know what, man, this is just what God has for me in this season. While I just rebuild and look at life and figure out what’s, what’s next for me. So I find so much joy in being a blessing to my coworkers. What a unique experience. How great, like you said, God has entrusted me and placed me here in the season.

And I am going to be the best. best shelf stocker that there is, because there is no shame in that. We think about going from missionary to a job like that, like there’s shame. There’s not, there is joy and opportunity and honor in any work that God places before you. So I hope that. It was for somebody just to take a step forward.

Go for it, Shonna. I want to make sure we don’t forget to as we round this out to bring up all the resources that you have because for everybody whether they are getting ready to go on the field to any one of these three seasons they would probably love some of those checklists that you talked about.

I’ve got a couple of your workbooks. They’re fantastic. Can you list out some of your resources and how people can get a hold of you so they can start digging into all this?

Shonna Ingram: Yeah, of course, we’ve got for each of these three seasons, we have different resources. So, for the pre returnee checklists. 90 days out, 60 days, 30 days/week of just, you know, practical things and emotional things that you can, can do during that time. Once you get to the States, we have an, call an arrival six months off, a lot of it is just actually working through the Psalms on the spiritual level, but also on the practical side. Of things, so we’ve got a planned return to 6 months, unplanned is 9 months. and then we have, and then we also have some little devotions that are 6 weeks. We do everything in 6 weeks. We feel like a 6 weeks is, you can always, like, people will commit to 6 weeks, but they might not, whoops. Commit to something longer. and then for Restore, we have, you can buy the workbook and do it on your own. We don’t totally recommend that, but I do have people that just buy it and work through it, or you have, you know, people in your organization like a group that had to come home for some reason. They go through Restore together. we do have groupsIn the fall in spring, so we’ll have, we always have fall groups and spring groups, and people like it because it’s sort of a third space, where not necessarily, yeah, it’s not necessarily, or because, you know, sometimes organizations cause trauma. 

Stephanie Gutierrez: That is true, unfortunately. Yep. We’re honest here.

Shonna Ingram: and then we’ve got a digital course through restore and then we’ve got the rebuild. So just help for the transition season. And yeah, we’re also looking at maybe a membership of two years of drop

Stephanie Gutierrez: That’s good.

Shonna Ingram: We’re, we’re working on that. I’m still trying to figure out the best way. end of that, but also we don’t, you know, we don’t know where the Lord’s gonna with that. And the book! 

Stephanie Gutierrez: I was just gonna say Fall 2025, something fun is happening.

Shonna Ingram: Yeah, we think, I think it’s called The Re Entry Journey. So we’re gonna, we look at sort of a trauma, you know, trauma informed, space, you don’t have to go through trauma, to read the book. This isn’t just for, you This is for anybody that’s come back, but we come from it from a trauma informed perspective that people might have it, and then we look at the three seasons, but then at the end of the book, we have, how does your organization and church work together to create a support network for your missionaries that have come back

Stephanie Gutierrez: So good.

Shonna Ingram: years? And like how do you guys meet together, you know, how do we meet? So, you know, I’m partly going through this book. I have other organizations. It’s like this, you know, we’re using this as a workbook to like, we’ll have the same words, same vocabulary, unjust like, oh, this person is, is in reentry.

Are they in restore? Oh, they might be. You’re probably in all three, you know, depending on the day that you wake up. so it’s not linear, but there is a structure to

Stephanie Gutierrez: There’s, there’s some stages. And so we’ll post a link to all that, including a pre order link for the new book and all of these great resources. So for anybody listening, whether you are a missionary or you serve missionaries, you’ve got some tangible steps that you could take to go through this process stronger.

So again, there is hope. I don’t even say on the other side, there’s hope through it. As you said earlier, Shonna, we hold grief and we hold gratitude in the same space. And so. On the same days that you might be crying your heart out, you also can be praising God and celebrating Him for bringing you to where He needed you to be and for the good things He’s done in your life.

So this is a time to grieve and it’s a time to celebrate. It’s a, it’s a time of winter of things dying and it’s a time of spring of new beginnings. And we believe that God is going to get you from where you are to where He needs you to be. So Shonna, thank you so much for joining us today. We loved having you.

Shonna Ingram: Thank you.